Finnish cuckoo in the second world war. Lessons from a forgotten war: what Finnish cuckoos taught our army

1939 A detachment of Red Army soldiers crossed the Soviet-Finnish border and went deep into the forest. It was hard to go - there was a 30-degree frost, and the snow fell above the knee. At the edge of the forest, I had to lie down - the Finns opened heavy fire from machine guns. The commander of the detachment was killed at the first shots. Junior political officer Ivan Kulypin ordered to put up two heavy machine guns on the flanks and return fire.
“Fifteen minutes later, I and the commander of the reconnaissance company Comrade. Mishkin noticed that among the machine gunners there were wounded. This surprised us. The fighters from the front were well covered, where are they being fired from?”, - from the memoirs of political instructor I. Kulypin. A few minutes later, one of the machine gunners received a bullet in the back of the head. “We begin to inspect the trees. The branches are dense, littered with snow. I notice that the branches of one of the fir trees are slightly swaying. I peer through the sight of a sniper rifle and see: a "cradle", and on it are legs in pies. I'm shooting. A man falls from a tree. We run up: a White Finn with a machine gun, ”from the memoirs of political instructor I. Kulypin. The war between the Soviet Union and Finland began on November 30, 1939. But already in December, a new term "cuckoos" appeared in the Red Army. Politruk Kulypin described the first case of the Finnish army using this guerrilla tactics of warfare. "Cuckoos"
Today, even military historians cannot say with certainty where this nickname came from - "cuckoos"? In an interview with the Zvezda TV channel, Dmitry Surzhik, a researcher at the Institute of World History of the Russian Academy of Sciences, told us about his version: The soldiers of the Red Army, faced in Finland with such a phenomenon as conducting a single fire from positions previously equipped and disguised in the forest, whether it be a tree or a snowdrift, called their opponents “cuckoos”. Giving such a dismissive nickname, the Red Army subconsciously apparently wanted to defeat the fear that was undoubtedly present in the troops, faced with a completely new and insidious type of combat, ”says Dmitry Surzhik, candidate of historical sciences. This is far from the only explanation for the name“ cuckoo ". According to one version, the soldiers of the Finnish army, who set up ambushes, communicated with each other, imitating the voices of birds. There are other versions, but they all have one thing in common - the “cuckoos” fired mainly at the command staff of the Red Army. “The main target of the “cuckoos” were officers and generals - this is a fact. At the beginning of the Finnish war, it was not difficult to identify the Soviet commander - a sheepskin coat and a holster were the main signs, ”says Surzhik. The Finnish cuckoos were armed with machine guns and rifles. For a long time it was believed that they were all snipers.
The myth of the cuckoo snipers
Historians consider it a strong exaggeration to talk about hundreds of snipers who fought in Finland in 1939-1940. The main argument is that in those years the Finnish army was armed with only 200 sniper rifles. “Cuckoo snipers” were called everyone who fired at the commanders and soldiers of the Red Army from shelters. The accuracy of hits was very high, this is true. But the fact is that the shooting was carried out from a distance of 200-300 meters. And it was often led by militias, i.e. local residents, most of whom were excellent hunters before the war, ”says a military historian. The so-called Shutskorites actively participated in the hostilities against the Red Army. Shutskor is a Finnish paramilitary organization similar to the people's militia. Members of this organization set up watchpoints in the branches of trees (on decks) and in the attics of houses. All of them were armed, and when the enemy appeared, they immediately opened fire. They descended from the trees on a rope, got up on skis, and hid. All Finns have been excellent skiers since childhood. Winter 1939-140 was very snowy. And, of course, our fighters on foot, - that is. without skis it was impossible to keep up with such militants,” says Dmitry Surzhik.
There were stories about the "cuckoos" that they were allegedly chained to trees with chains and ropes. This is an absolute myth.
“In Karelia and Finland, as you know, there are a lot of pines. So, their branches are often located at the same level. Finnish shooters, in order to walk along branches without letting go of their weapons, in the form of insurance, tied a rope or chain around their waist. Only and everything. No one tied or chained them to the battlefield, ”explains the military historian.
Most likely, the Finnish shooters were mistaken for snipers only for the accuracy of their shots. They were also credited with "talking in bird language" - one sentinel signaled to another with the help of sounds made by birds. Such facts occurred, but in winter (birds do not particularly sing in winter, cuckoos do not cuckoo - this is a migratory bird), the Finns used this technique extremely rarely. As a rule, each shooter had a gunner and an experienced demolition man. In search of the enemy, the Red Army rushed to the place of the shots, and fell into a small minefield. The death of our soldiers gave the Finnish shooter the opportunity to quickly take up a position in the neighborhood, ”says Dmitry Surzhik.
The main target of the Finnish "cuckoos" has always been the commanders of the Red Army. The losses were so great that already a month after the start of hostilities, i.e. in January 1940, officers began to appear in combat positions only in camouflage coats. Many, despite the cold, refused to wear sheepskin coats - too conspicuous, and therefore risky. “The loss in battle even of a company commander in this war was of great importance. The soldiers did not know where to go next and what to do in general. The losses of our army, in comparison with the losses of the Finns, were very large. 150 thousand people from our side and only 19 thousand from the enemy,” says Dmitry Surzhik. As a “counterweight” to the Finnish “cuckoos”, the Red Army used artillery fire. Before each advance of the troops, the forests were fired with grapeshot. Photo: CAFM - Pansar i Vinterkriget by Maksym Kolomyjec“It was called ‘cutting the tops. But the Finns quickly changed their tactics. They began to hide in the snowdrifts. Only not simple, but artificial. From building materials or spruce branches, they built a hut, which was covered with snow. It was possible to distinguish him from the real one only after a series of shots, ”says Surzhik. Only one person was officially recognized as the only real sniper during the Soviet-Finnish War - Finn Simo Hayha.
Simo Hayha, nicknamed "White Death"
Simo Haykha was born in Karelia, into a peasant family. The first time he was drafted into the army in 1925. The second - in the fall of 1939, due to the aggravation of relations between Finland and the USSR. Hayha used the Mosin M28 rifle (Pystykorva) - this is a shortened version of the three-ruler, since it more corresponded to his extremely small stature - 1 meter 52 centimeters. Simo never used an optical sight, he thought it was safer that way. No need to raise your head to the sight, and no "sunbeams". During the hostilities, he destroyed 542 Red Army soldiers. According to unconfirmed reports, the sniper also used a Finnish Suomi M/31 assault rifle. On average, Simo Hayha killed 5 Soviet soldiers per day, given the short winter day - approximately one person per hour.
On March 6, 1940, during hand-to-hand combat, he was wounded in the face, a bullet hit his jaw and tore his cheek. The Finnish orderlies who carried his body from the battlefield later said that Hayhi was practically missing half of her head. However, the injury was not fatal. Simo Hayha woke up on March 13, 1940 - the day the war ended. In peacetime, the former sniper was engaged in hunting and breeding dogs, and died quite recently - in 2002.
The lessons of the "Finnish" war The war between the Soviet Union and Finland was fleeting - it lasted only 100 days. But the Red Army gained invaluable experience during this time. "Cuckoos" taught the army a lot. And first of all, the methods and methods of conducting single aimed fire from pre-prepared positions. In an interview with the Zvezda TV channel, former sniper Sergei Chuvyrin shared his thoughts on this issue. cuckoos", who were not snipers in the truest sense of the word, were adopted not only in the Red Army, but also in the German one. And, perhaps, the most important thing here is the camouflage of the shooter and his weapons, ”the former sniper believes. It is known that Haykha, in order not to betray his disposition in a 30-degree frost, constantly chewed snow. This technique is used by special forces to this day. “When you chew snow, steam does not come out of your mouth, let alone steam - there will not even be a light “smoke”. Of course, there is no pleasure in chewing snow in the cold, but you save your life, ”says Chuvyrin. The knowledge of the area by the Finnish "cuckoos" was also taken into service. "The Finns fought at home. The country is small, most of the locals knew how to hold weapons in their hands from childhood. All this taken together gave a huge advantage to the shooter. And it doesn’t matter where he was – in a crevice of a rock, on a tree or on the ground,” the former sniper explains. “Unfortunately, this bitter experience was not fully used during the Great Patriotic War, but it was not forgotten. And already in other wars, the commanders were dressed in the same uniform as the soldiers, and this saved many lives, ”says Sergey Chuvyrin.

Snipers "cuckoo" in the Finnish war 1939-1940

The term "cuckoo" is repeatedly found in the book "Fighting in Finland. Memoirs of participants”, published in the USSR in 1941, in which the “cuckoo” was most often described precisely as a sniper firing from a tree.

Mentions of the Finnish snipers-"cuckoos" are quite often found in the memoirs and memoirs of the participants in the Finnish war from the Soviet side, as well as in the Soviet press. They are mentioned, in particular, General E. F. Ivanovsky (during the Finnish war, a former lieutenant, tank commander), Marshal K. A. Meretskov (during the Finnish war - commander of the 2nd rank, commander of the 7th army), marshal N. N. Voronov.

This is how Deputy Political Commissar G. Shchuklin described his combat experience:

I looked up but didn't see anyone. The snow tightly covered the tops of the trees, and the shooting was heard everywhere, and it was not possible to quickly determine where they were hitting. Suddenly I saw junior lieutenant Kolosov crawling up to a tree. Wounded, he continued to fire his pistol upwards. Rushing towards him, I noticed a Shutskor man on the branches, firing from a machine gun. It was junior lieutenant Kolosov who fought with him. I quickly took aim and pulled the trigger. The Shutskor man dropped his machine gun and hung on a branch. They immediately started shooting at me. I crawled back and hid behind a fallen tree. From here I noticed the second "cuckoo". On a tall pine tree, almost at the very storehouse, stood a full-length Shutskor man in a gray jacket. He stood on the bridge of the boards and fired from a light machine gun .

According to contemporary sources, Finnish soldiers used shooting from trees " much less often than it seemed to the Red Army ... This way of conducting single combat operations left the soldier sitting on a tree almost no chance to retreat, and even a slight wound could lead to a fatal fall» .

It is believed that the legend of snipers in the trees appeared in conditions when the echo of a shot from a hidden sniper, repeatedly reflected from the trees in the forest, disoriented the survivors.

Also, it is believed that at least part of the references to the arrows, "cuckoo" refers to observation posts equipped in trees. During the Finnish war, such observation posts (in the form of a platform) were equipped by Finnish border guards, observers and artillery spotters. They were used in the future.

Nevertheless, at least isolated cases of firing from trees are known from history.

In addition, shooting from a position equipped on a tree (platform or "hunt") is used by hunters.

Cuckoo snipers in other wars and armed conflicts

there is a mention that during the Great Patriotic War, the Soviet sniper Vodopyanov shot dead a German officer and several soldiers in the village they occupied, firing from a position on a spruce. Since the first shots were fired during a firefight on the front line, he was not noticed by the enemy, but later, the Germans stopped moving through the area under fire and put up signs "attention, sniper!" .
According to the memoirs of a veteran of the Great Patriotic War, corporal of the reconnaissance platoon of the 70th Marine Rifle Brigade V. V. Anisimov, in April 1942, during defensive battles on the Svir River, they shot a Finnish sniper who was on a tree, and a few days later on the same on the front, during the artillery shelling of Finnish positions, another Finnish soldier fell from a tree, who, apparently, was caught by shrapnel. However, the second person killed could be an observer.
in the autumn of 1942, in the defensive battles for the North Caucasus, Soviet troops equipped and used positions in the trees for snipers and machine gunners
In early November 1942, at the edge of the forest near the village of Berech (in the vicinity of Kovel), in preparation for the battle with the SS, partisans from the detachment of Jozef Sobiesiak (“Max”) equipped carefully camouflaged positions in the trees for 12 submachine gunners. At the moment when the SS marching column moving along the road was under the trees, the "cuckoos" opened fire on the column from the trees, and the rest of the partisans opened fire from an ambush. The “cuckoo” submachine gunners caused confusion among the enemy (almost immediately they killed 20 SS men), as a result, the SS men suffered significant losses and retreated (nevertheless, two “cuckoo” partisans died in a shootout with the enemy who came to his senses). At the battlefield, the partisans collected 2 light machine guns, 13 machine guns and 35 rifles.
In January 1943, during the fighting in New Guinea, units of the 163rd Regiment of the 41st Infantry Division of the United States encountered Japanese snipers who fired from the ground and from the trees. To fight the enemy in one of the battalions of the 163rd regiment, in addition to camouflaged sniper ambushes on the front line of defense, sniper positions were equipped in the trees on the flanks and in the rear of their own troops.
in 1943, before the start of the battle on the Kursk Bulge, an attempt to shoot a German officer from a sniper rifle from a position on a tree was made by an army intelligence officer G.F. Egorov. Since the tree immediately began to fire from small arms, he did not have time to evaluate the results of the shot - as he was forced to immediately jump from the tree and hide in a trench. A minute later, the Germans fired ten mortar mines on the tree on which the position was equipped.
Lieutenant V. Gerlach from the 654th Eastern Battalion of the Wehrmacht mentions in his memoirs that in the second half of 1944, in one of the clashes in France, he and his subordinates encountered French partisans - "poppies" who fired from trees.
On the night of July 27-28, 1944, before the assault on Brest by Soviet troops, several Soviet snipers from the group of Hero of the Soviet Union I. D. Pavlenko equipped positions in attics and trees, from which, after the start of the assault, several German machine gunners and crews were destroyed on the opposite bank of the Bug two guns.
In September 1944, during the battles on the territory of Latvia, the Germans, during the retreat, repeatedly left single snipers in camouflaged positions along forest roads - they let the advancing units and large subunits pass and began to shoot at single vehicles, liaison officers, wagon trains (" when retreating, the Nazis leave well-camouflaged snipers in the trees and in other places ... the decision is not only daring, but also insidious. If the cleansing flurry of war has already passed through the area, then a person moves there less carefully than on the front line - only occasionally looks under his feet so as not to run into a mine, but in general, vigilance is dulled. This is what the "foundlings" used"). One of these snipers, who was setting up a position on a tree, was discovered and shot dead by Soviet intelligence officers at the moment when he opened fire on another group of Soviet soldiers.
On April 15, 1945, Jan Zyzha, a private of the 26th Infantry Regiment of the 9th Infantry Division of the 2nd Army of the Polish Army, was shot dead by a German sniper who was on a tree on the front line near the city of Rotenburg. After the first shot, the sniper was located and destroyed by fire from an anti-tank rifle.
According to the memoirs of the veteran of the Great Patriotic War A. I. Ustinova, who participated in the battle for Manchuria, in August 1945, Soviet soldiers repeatedly met Japanese soldiers firing from trees (at the same time, in order not to fall, the Japanese tied themselves to a tree trunk with a rope)

Notes

Literature and sources

P. A. Belyakov. In the sight "Brown Bear". - M.: Military Publishing, 1977.

Links

Finnish cuckoo, legend or reality? // site "Vyborg. About past and present

Wikimedia Foundation. 2010 .

Cuckoo, shooter Dictionary of Russian synonyms. sniper n., number of synonyms: 4 cuckoo (26) mark ... Synonym dictionary

I Forest migratory bird, usually not making nests and laying eggs in other people's nests. II well. unfold 1. A small shunting locomotive (from the letter designation of its K series). 2. A small local train running on various branch lines ... ... Modern explanatory dictionary of the Russian language Efremova

AND; pl. genus. shek, dat. shkam; and. 1. Forest migratory bird, usually not making its own nest and laying eggs in others. Listen to the cuckoo in the forest. Live like a cuckoo clock (which signals the time not by striking, but by cuckooing). Swap a cuckoo for a hawk... ... encyclopedic Dictionary

cuckoo- and; pl. genus. shek, dat. shkam; and. see also cuckoo 1) Forest migratory bird, usually not making its own nest and laying eggs in others. Listen to the cuckoo in the forest. Live like a kuku/shka. Cuckoo clock (which signals the time not by striking, but by cuckooing) ... Dictionary of many expressions

White Pantyhose, or "White Stocking" is the slang name for a squad of female snipers of predominantly Baltic origin who allegedly fought on the side of anti-Russian forces and separatist regimes in war zones on the territory ... Wikipedia

Stories about hundreds and thousands of snipers are, of course, an exaggeration. There is evidence that the entire Finnish army at that time was armed with only 200 sniper rifles. It would be more correct to say that a lot of shooters fought on the Finnish side, and not snipers in the strict sense of the word. These shooters were part of the divisions of the shutskor - structures akin to our people's militia. All these people were hunters before the war, in wooded Finland every man is a hunter. The Shyutskorovites built their “nests” on hills, in the attics of houses, and much less often in trees. They often worked in pairs. While one sat with a weapon in the “nest”, the other slept in a bunker arranged below, at the foot of a tree or somewhere nearby. If the "cuckoo" was spotted, and it became necessary to leave, the shooter slid off the barrel along the rope and hid in a shelter. It was not a problem for the Finns to go into the forest on skis. The entire population of Finland are excellent skiers, the Shutskor people were both at home in the forest, and legends about instantaneous disappearances were born. The stories about snipers chained to the trunks of pine trees were partly generated by Soviet propaganda, which had to somehow explain the effectiveness of the Finnish shooters, partly by the fact that sometimes the shooters actually insured themselves by tying themselves to the trunk with a rope or chain. "Bird talk" snipers - also from the category of myths. It is likely that the arrows gave each other some kind of signals, imitating bird calls, but since it was winter, they hardly used the calls of the cuckoo for this, the bird, as you know, is a migratory one.

For the entire period of the Soviet-Finnish war, only one officially documented episode of the destruction of the Finnish “cuckoo” sniper is known. It was January 3, 1940. Soldiers of the 1st company of the 1st battalion of the 4th border regiment shot down the shooter. He actually sat on a tree.

During the Finnish war, Simo Häyhä was nicknamed the White Death by the Red Army. He was, according to the Finns, the most productive sniper in all wars in the world. According to some reports, during the 100 days of the war, he killed 500-750 people. This means that every day he took the lives of 5-8 Red Army soldiers. Could it be? After all, he was followed by a real hunt, in which more than a dozen of the best counter-snipers of the Red Army participated, and they, by all accounts, were the most productive in the world.

Myth or reality

Probably, the Finnish sniper Simo Häyhä was a good shooter, but Finnish propaganda clearly outdid both the Soviet and the fascist taken together. For the sniper, nicknamed the White Death, there was a real hunt, this is confirmed by his severe wound. The Finnish side simply could not not know this. Most likely, Hyayuhya himself knew about this. So, starting from the middle of the war, he did not shoot as much as he hid.

No one argues that snipers from the Finnish side really raged in the first days of the war. But this is for the time being. Soviet snipers also worked along the entire front line. If at the beginning, as always, they blundered a little, then by the middle of the campaign there was no such revelry. It is also necessary to take into account the length of the front line. It was insignificant, just a little less than 400 kilometers. Someone will object that the Finns are excellent forest hunters, but Russia is not deprived of them either. There were also taiga dwellers who, without any optics, hit a squirrel in the eye.

And one more important fact. It was the winter war, when any trace was imprinted in full view. In severe frosts, there are no snowfalls that hide traces. And the cold was almost the whole of December 1939. And yet, shooting in the Union has always been given due attention, there were special courses for snipers. In the NKVD alone, there were more than 25,000 of these specialists on staff.

Of course, no one but the sniper himself could and cannot confirm this "record". In addition to Simo Häyhä, other shooters also worked from the Finnish side. Professionals also worked from the Soviet side. Interestingly, the 100 best Soviet snipers during the years of World War II destroyed 25,500 enemy soldiers and officers, which is an average of 255 people per shooter. There were also those who had an account of more than 500 killed, but this, it is worth emphasizing, was over four and a half years.

Childhood and youth

The son of a peasant, Simo was born on December 17, 1905 in Rautjärvi, located in Finland (Russian Empire). There were eight children in the family, he was the seventh. Together with his older brothers, he went fishing and hunting. These activities were the main occupation of the family. He graduated from the public school in Mietilä. When he was 17 years old, he entered the Shchyutskor security corps, where he was engaged in shooting. He even participated in the shooting competition in Viipuri, where he became the first.

Military career

The future sniper Simo Häyhä, at the age of twenty, served in the second bicycle battalion stationed in Valkyarvi. He graduated from the non-commissioned officer school and received the rank of non-commissioned officer of the 1st cyclist battalion in the town of Terijoki. Noting his good performance in shooting, he was sent to Kouvola, where he studied at the Utti Fortress in sniper courses in 1934.

War between Finland and the USSR

After training, he served in the 34th Infantry Regiment. During the war, since December 7, 1939, the regiment has been participating in the battles of Ladoga Karelia, near Mount Kolla. During the hostilities, there were severe frosts, the air temperature reached -40 degrees Celsius.

The soldiers of the Red Army at the beginning of the war did not have winter equipment (white coats) and were excellent prey for Finnish snipers. This gap was quickly filled. In addition, myths were launched about the elusive Finnish "cuckoos" who allegedly shot from trees. At first, this played a significant role.

Special tactics of Finnish snipers

Equipped platforms in the trees, "cuckoos", which at first were mistaken for the positions of snipers, were a kind of observation posts. Snipers advanced to positions on skis. The rookeries were equipped in advance and carefully masked. Warm woolen clothes protected in the most severe frost and evened out the pulse. Simo Häyhä's small stature allowed him to feel good in the cramped snow holes.

Simo's little tricks

As a weapon, Hyayhya used the "Sako" M / 28-30 spitz - the Finnish analogue of the Mosin rifle. He did not use a telescopic sight, as it left a glare that could give him away. In addition, the windows "wept", and frost covered them in the cold. When using optics, the sniper's head rose higher, which also made him vulnerable. He also used the Suomi KR/31 submachine gun.

Another nuance: he had his position at a short distance, about 450 meters from the enemy’s location, taking into account the fact that they would not look for him so close. By mid-February, the unit commander recorded 217 Red Army soldiers killed by a sniper rifle on his account. And according to one version, he killed 200 people with a machine gun. Why were Simo Häyhä feared? Because they were afraid not only of him, but of any other human hunter. Everyone wants to live.

Wound

The Red Army called him the White Death. On him, as well as on others, the hunt began, to which the best snipers of the Soviet Union were attracted. At the very beginning of March 1940, he was seriously wounded. An explosive bullet hit him in the lower part of the face, turned his cheekbone and shattered his bones. Having lost consciousness, the sniper came to his senses only a week later. The treatment was hard and long. He endured many surgeries and survived. Due to his injury, he did not participate in the war of 1941-1944. But he was promoted to second lieutenant. The post-war photos of Simo Häyhä show that his face is very different from the images in the pre-war pictures.

Häyhä's image is a weapon of propaganda

At the very beginning of the military campaign, the Finnish press created the image of a hero who kills a myriad of enemies. The most interesting thing is that at critical moments at the front, when it was necessary to raise the morale of the soldiers, the Finnish command announced that a great sniper was arriving in their unit, who killed 25 Red Army soldiers in one day. Often he actually appeared in this place. This was done to raise the spirit of ordinary and war-weary soldiers. Simo's "achievements" were skillfully used as a propaganda weapon. Most likely, he was in fact a good sniper, but not the way they are trying to present him to us today.

Remus 22-08-2005 22:40

In some old movie, a German machine gunner chained to something appeared. Once I was interested in such things in terms of the psychology of extreme situations. Everything in life is possible, but there was no reliable evidence.

bader 23-08-2005 18:25

Somewhere such a topic slipped that towards the end of the war such cases of chaining took place. I don’t know about the “cuckoos”, but I came across machine gunners in the literature. But I haven’t seen official confirmation anywhere, so it’s most likely nonsense, although .... in life, and even more so in war, anything can happen.

Mosinman 23-08-2005 21:50

The Germans practiced this even in the First World War. The idea is that first you will shoot yourself, and then, even if it comes to your mind to surrender, you will know that they will not be taken alive, because you have beaten a lot of people. Therefore, you will shoot to the end.
It seems that on the Zeelovsky Heights and the Dnieper, such machine gunners met.

ranger 02-09-2005 14:05

This is not bullshit. This is history. This was the case with the Germans in both wars and the Japanese. Moreover, even before 1941, and even in WW2 and even more so - and not only against us, but also on the islands against the amers.

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Shoot fast and think - you'll live longer... If you survive!

Sissy 18-09-2005 02:23

No, I can say quite officially that garbage. There were snipers, yes, but to a rock or a tree only if you are from a psychiatric ward. The Germans had their own grouping in Finland, but strictly under their command, and for example, their power was not extended to the Finns. It was strictly there, yes, there were many cases that German sentries fired on Finnish long-range detachments, and for this, as a rule, death followed the tribunal. In general, the Germans were poorly prepared for the warriors in these latitudes and therefore fought almost only trench battles and stood at the expense of their technical strength.
There were personal beds, yes, for example, the Finnish sniper Simo Häyhä, whose account in the army was +500, according to some information, the exact 542 (in the Finnish army, only a partner or officer could be a witness), he used an open sight (I hope everyone understands) crawled at least 40 % of cases (it is worth saying that the melting in the forest is from 30-150m maximum). And it's not about cuckoos, but about the ability and choice of personnel, as a rule, loners worked. Legends were born later as well as after the First World War about German snipers.

ASlon 18-09-2005 02:35

Sissy
could you give a link (or advise other sources) with some information about this sniper. (Simo Hayha) You can even in Finnish .. I am fond of the history of the Winter War and the actions of the Finnish army in particular. I will be very grateful.

Sissy 18-09-2005 02:48

Yes, you don’t need links, just the name and surname Simo Häyhä, and then just choose the language, there are many links to English on it or on its statistics, there are opinions that there are no equals, but not Zaitsev, of course. There was no promotion for the whole world, and again, the score is not kept by soldiers, there is not enough smoke like that of fighters. If I'm short of time or too lazy, then I can sit, if there are wishes for languages, then write.

ASlon 18-09-2005 02:59

Sissy
I’m not very good with English, but I’ll try to search, there is a link by name, maybe you can indicate other sources with interesting (or little-known) facts on this issue. Really interesting.

Sissy 18-09-2005 03:07

Well, I forgot where I have it. Here is everything you need, at least according to statistics.
http://www.snipercentral.com/snipers.htm#WWII

ASlon 18-09-2005 03:26

Thanks a lot! Indeed As. Strange that I had never heard of him before.

Sissy 18-09-2005 03:32

And in Finland, few people know about it. This is how it says to an amateur / connoisseur / historian or for learning.

Sissy 18-09-2005 13:12

If he asks a male from 18-30 years old, then they know who they are talking about somewhere 50/50, but I’m already silent about the female part.

Remus 18-09-2005 23:15

Then all is not lost.
Legends naturally appear later. For different reasons. According to the archives, at the beginning of the war, the Finnish army had only about 200 rifles with optical sights. Naturally, I had to turn around. Simo Häyhä himself explained the work from an open sight very simply - you need to stick your head out less.

Sissy 02-10-2005 21:29

Yes, there are enough legends, but the brightest ones are about Lauri Törni and Simo Häyhä.

apple 03-10-2005 01:13

What CAVE IGNORANCE!!! The tale of the chaining of machine gunners (snipers ???, grenade launchers ???, radio operators ???, tankers ???, pilots ???, officers of the General Staff ???) really originates in WWI. Famous "children's" uniformologists Fred and Lilian Funken (republished from AST) suggested that the legend originates from the fact that members of the machine gun crews of the German army were equipped with wide leather belts with metal carbines, designed for emergency carrying of machine guns on the battlefield . And, they say, the soldiers found the killed enemy machine gunners and, based on these belts, they made a conclusion about chaining. I don’t know how the “chained” comrades are, but after such an outrage I wouldn’t shoot, but yelled until I was hoarse: “They are shissen!!! (French) captivity!!!" But everything is much more banal. WWI was not only the first world, but also the first ideological. Some lucky journalist came up with the idea, among other inventions about the atrocities of the enemy, to ascribe to the Germans such things! And I went for a walk through the pages of various "Russian invalids" and "Niv" another fairy tale ... In their hatred, people did not want to advance further than a convenient stamp. So "The Terrible Tale" is also mentioned by the Strugatskys, the historian Rodin attributed the "rite of chaining" to the Austro-Hungarians, the director Rodin made a film in which they chained (???) a sniper (???) "finnik" in a German uniform (??? ) SS troops (???) ...

Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven!

student 03-10-2005 02:51

Yeah .. One of the roots of such legends is misunderstandings, sort of like with a machine gun harness.
For example, in Krymskaya, the French press wrote that a Russian soldier is so patriotic and superstitious that he always carries a bag with his native land with him. In fact, this "land" was grated rye crackers - they fed disgustingly in the besieged city. And the legend of the native land still roams.

Sincerely, Student

Kalmar 10-10-2005 02:37

I agree that there is no point in chaining a sniper. He is a free hunter, a valuable fighter who will not be sacrificed. As for the machine gunner, it is quite possible at the request of the riveted. Like a kamikaze. To not be afraid.

apple 10-10-2005 22:16

quote: Originally posted by Kalmar:
I agree that there is no point in chaining a sniper. He is a free hunter, a valuable fighter who will not be sacrificed. As for the machine gunner, it is quite possible at the request of the riveted. Like a kamikaze. To not be afraid.
On mobilization, many Finns came with their own rifles. There were not enough weapons for everyone in the army. Most are hunters. Perhaps that is why there were so many good snipers among the Finns. And civilians always have weapons of higher quality than army ones.

2. It is unlikely that army snipers were armed with their own rifles. After all, already from the middle of the 19th century, the best hunting samples were alterations of the army ones. For example, the famous "berdanka". Yes, a huge minus of mass weapons is low quality. But a giant plus is the mass production of ammunition.

student 11-10-2005 13:16

A simple aspect - the chain can be interrupted by a bullet. And you can’t fight with the chain from the Admiralty anchor. Here it is, the reason.

Sincerely, Student

Kalmar 12-10-2005 12:18

quote: Originally posted by apple:
1. Still not logical. If a sniper is not allowed, then why is it possible to weld a tanker in a tank or rivet a pilot to the skin of an aircraft? Why was it necessary to spend gigantic funds and efforts on maintaining the NKVD detachments, if it was possible to learn from the experience of German comrades and chain the minelayers themselves in the trenches? Why is it possible to bring up a heap of literature on kamikaze or selflessness in general, but nowhere in serious studies do they talk about chaining? Maybe because it didn't exist at all?

So after all, no one brought the facts. All this is at the level of rumors.

quote: 2. It is unlikely that army snipers were armed with their own rifles. After all, already from the middle of the 19th century, the best hunting samples were alterations of the army ones. For example, the famous "berdanka". Yes, a huge minus of mass weapons is low quality. But a giant plus is the mass production of ammunition.

But this, excuse me, is a historical fact. The Finns came with their rifles. Just like American contractors are in Iraq today. And their weapons are much more abrupt than the army ones. I myself have a weapon of higher quality and more expensive than the army. Read what weapons the forum users own. No army will run away. Just compare the quality of match weapons and army ones.

student 12-10-2005 13:26

Gentlemen, Finland is an interesting country. With a modest military budget, there were many enthusiasts, there were also paramilitary organizations - shutskor and the women's "lotta-svard", and so they were also engaged in sports shooting. From military weapons, i.e. Mosinok. And the trunks were placed there not very simple, I mean sporting rifles. And they will be extremely stupid to argue that the sports Mosinka of a Shutskor shooter with a big name has worse accuracy than an army rifle. Meanwhile, a rifle could also be a prize at competitions, exactly the one with excellent barrel processing. And there is nothing strange if the owner or owner took their Mosinka to the front - the cartridge is the same, and the rifle itself is also an analogue of the army. At higher quality.
An analogy for the type of Soviet weapons - few people will compare the accuracy of 1891 \ 30 with AV or AVL. Although both are essentially Mosinka.

Sincerely, Student

Sergey-M 15-10-2005 16:50

Grandfather told. Before the war, they lived in a border village in western Ukraine. The bunkers of the Vladimir-Volyn UR, hastily built the day before, were located in the district. A couple of months before the start of the war, residents were evacuated hundreds of kilometers from the border, so as not to fall under the distribution. When the front line swept through them to the east and people returned to their village, in these same bunkers they found dead Red Army soldiers chained. The name of one of these hero-machine gunners now bears the local frontier post. Maybe a fable about chains, but I heard from several eyewitnesses of those events.
By the way, the outpost then held out for a day, but there is no information about the UR.

VOYAKA 20-10-2005 07:25

Student, excuse my ignorance, but it seems to me that chains are interrupted by a bullet only in films ... Moreover, as you put it, anchors ... Correct me if I'm wrong.
Sincerely.

apple 20-10-2005 15:32

Student, excuse my ignorance, but it seems to me that chains are interrupted by a bullet only in films ... Moreover, as you put it, anchors ... Correct me if I'm wrong.

Aha! That is, the problem is not whether this is a propaganda myth, but in the thickness of the chain? Well ... Also an option !!!

bucherets 20-10-2005 16:23

quote: Originally posted by VOYAKA:
... it seems to me that chains are interrupted by a bullet only in films ...

Here in this film the hero Ville Haapsalo just tried to do it. He didn't succeed.
And if you approach the matter purely practically, what is the use of chaining a sniper. With a machine gunner still back and forth, but here's a sniper? The essence of a sniper: shot once or twice - changed position. Otherwise, they will be discovered and destroyed. Those. a chained sniper simply won't shoot.

student 20-10-2005 19:38

If a 7.62 rifle bullet calmly hits three or four millimeters of steel, then you can rivet the chain!
Another thing is that it will cut with fragments of the shell, and you can catch a ricochet. You can ... But it's better than the guaranteed death of the "chain sniper".

Sincerely, Student

pasha333 20-10-2005 19:39

Machine gunner - the same thing - if not from Ukrp. fire points - also fill up.

Well, what's the point? If they chain him up and he wants to survive anyway, it’s better to wave something white right away when they come up - there will be more chances to survive than to shoot to the last.

By the way, I re-read how many German sources I have never seen anything like ours or theirs. About the Japanese - yes, the Finns, in my opinion, too.